bluegreen17 | religion,desire,humility

i'm looking forward to going to the library today. i am going to look through the religion section. well,mainly the catholic/christian section,as i've been studying much of the other religions for many years,and now i'm getting back to this. i hope my interest is not just a passing fancy, because i really think it would be good for me to get back to going to church etc. i think it would be good for my mental health. it sounds incredibly selfish to want to get reconnected to God so you'll feel better. doesnt it?
well,hopefully God wont mind. why do people practice religion anyway?

and don't worry,i'm not likely to become an obnoxious constant bible-quoting religious fanatic. catholics aren't like that. i never realized until recently that protestants follow the doctrine called sola scriptura. so everything is centered around the bible,whereas in catholicism it isn't. which is really kind of strange,but it's those kinds of things i want to learn. i think one of the differences is the sacraments. i dont' think protestants have sacraments. and i'm not sure of the precedent for them,except for the last
supper communion.

i think i understand the protestant reformation. the catholic church,is,and always has been,it seems,riddled with corruption. corruption shows up in many places,sadly. and i've always liked the idea that one doesn't need an intermediary between oneself and God. hence,the lack of heirarachy and lots of personal bible-reading and intrepreting.

i'm beginning to see the role of hierarchy and authority,in a way. i will only say that for me personally,it's about humility,something that i've very much lacked my entire life. and strangely,my stubborness and pride are because i really have low self-esteem. a person with good self-esteem doesn't have a need to be obnoxious and doesn't need to always get their way. asserting myself too aggressively has been for protection because i feel insecure. but ironicly,it doesnt' work.

there's a verse in the tao te ching in regards to water. water is yielding and yet is incredibly strong. wasn't it water that carved out the grand canyon? water wears down rock,even though rock appears to be stronger. and yet water yields.

perhaps getting one's way and getting what one wants is not a way to be happy. maybe that's one reason i havent' been able to reconcile the new age 'creating your own reality' concept and the concept of the tao...going with the flow/following God's will...

to a great degree,with different techniques,be they new age or magickal or spellwork,or prayers, one can often get results and get what one wants. (i haven't been very adept at this myself,but lots of people are.)

there's nothing wrong with that per se,though in a sense i think in certain practices,you're dealing with energies and phenomena which may be more powerful than one knows how to handle,and one may not find out such until it's too late. but live and learn,perhaps...

but the point is, is 'getting what one wants' the point or is being happy and at peace,with or without what you desire,more important? and maybe it boils down to,what is one's highest desire?

and amusingly enough,desiring to be without desire is a desire! that's the buddhist idea,to transcend desire. but maybe that's the one desire that can bring satisfaction. just a thought.

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and don't worry,i'm not likely to become an obnoxious constant bible-quoting religious fanatic. catholics aren't like that.

I'm like that sometimes, and I'm Catholic. But when I'm like that, it's either becuase I'm being funny (teasing Protestants about their status as heretics), or because some rational materialist is acting too full of himself, and I feel like ruining his day by dragging him into 16th centurty rationalism.

so everything is centered around the bible,whereas in catholicism it isn't. which is really kind of strange,but it's those kinds of things i want to learn. i think one of the differences is the sacraments. i dont' think protestants have sacraments. and i'm not sure of the precedent for them,except for the last supper communion.

Protestants practice a different version of the sacraments than Catholics. No High Mass, no Communion, no Confession, most don't practice the Eurachrist. Some preform Baptisms. But they still attend church on the sabbath.

Catholcism is based in the bible, as interpretted by centuries of theologians that dedicated themselves to crafting rational arguments based on poetry (no mean trick). I'm sure you've heard that you can "prove anything" by consulting the bible. Well, it's true, if you take things out of context. The Catholic Church has Dogmas that are arguments built on considerign things in context of the bible, and then applyign them to the modern world. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm) is an incredible document, and makes far more sense than the haphazard applications of scripture that most Protestant/Evangelical churches practice. The Catechism is the actual statement of beliefs of the Church, and it was the arguments of the Catechism that converted me to Catholcism. I found the arguments so compelling (especially Part Three: The Life In Christ) that I found myself not caring if the premises were...spurious at best.

If you are really interested in understanding Catholicism, I would suggest attending the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults), which is a class taught free at every Catholic Church. It's easiest to understand the Catechism with an authoritive guide, and it's nice to have a priest there to answer questions on the spot.

the catholic church,is,and always has been,it seems,riddled with corruption.

Less so than Protestanism however. Really, the Catholic Church in the 20th century has been pretty good, a real force for social justice, and a real standard bearer for the "religion of love". I mean, compare Billy Graham/Pat Robertson to Pope John Paul II and you get an idea of how fucked Evangelical Christianity really is.

you sound more enthusiastic than fanatic! i think it's interesting that you converted to catholicism. did you practice a religion before that?

that's a great website! i think it's cool that the catechism is readable online. i also think it is very interesting how the catechism is determined. it seems more thoughtful than the interpretation of one person. not that the majority should decide beliefs,but it seems like a lot of thought is put into it,and it seems like a good thing.

i was actually baptized as an infant,made my first communion and first confession at age 7 and confirmed at age 11. i went to catholic schools for most of grammar school. i attended church and followed the practices through high school and somewhat during my college years. after college,i explored some protestant faiths,including some fundamentalists,but didn't stick with anything and i've been studying religion but not practicing it for about twenty years so there is much that i've forgotten. it might be a good thing to take rcia classes as a refresher course,if they allow lapsed catholics to do so!

well,billy graham seems pretty respectable,but i know what you mean about a lot of evangelical protestants. and definitely someone like mother theresa was still doing things in the spirit of jesus.

i think the pope is a very good person,though i'm not sure about the infallibility of popes! it's really too bad that he has to remain the pope until death. he looks so frail and he should just be able to rest,which he probably does much of the time,one would hope.

thanks for the info!

I'm following these religious exploration posts with interest.

me too! that is i'm following my religious exploration with great interest,and i hope it continues.

i do,however, have some concern about writing about this. writing about one's religious beliefs can be obnoxious to other people...though to put it in perspective,is that as bad as,say,writing deragotory things about certain races or any other number of things. and of course no one has to read it. still,i guess it's a matter of not wanting people to feel that one's religion is being shoved down their throats,and by the same token,turning people off of the very thing you might want to turn them on to! does that make sense?

also,to me,it's rather personal and difficult to talk about in a way too.

it's rather interesting,because it's just really that feeling a void in my life,i have chosen to believe,because the messages are good. i can't say i have any certainty. but having chosen to believe feels intuitively correct...which isn't really a feeling,per se. more of a kind of knowing. again,hard to explain.

i remember in high school i read c.s. lewis's mere christianity and was impressed that he made a conscious choice to be a christian...it was not by default. it's sort of like a love freely given,which is the only love worth giving and receiving. and i personally think that has a lot to do with the whole journey of life and the idea of free will. just my opinion,anyway.

i think i'm going to use this answer to your note as an entry. i like the fact that sometimes comments elicit responses that are illuminating to the person as they write them. so,thanks!

I was also very much interested in religion for a long time, and still am but to a lesser degree. I'm Catholic but more openminded than the strict Catechism (which is indeed an interesting read).

Mind if I add you to my friends list?

~Sari

certainly you may add me!

i think catholicism in general is pretty liberal,at least it has been in my lifetime and especially in comparison to fundamentalist christians. i'm not liberal in all areas of my life,and am less so as i get older,but i like to think i'm openminded on many things as regards what other people choose to do or not. it's an ideal,because i definitely have my opinions and a certain stubbornness about being right about certain things. i'm paradoxical,i suppose. i think many folks are.

i used to be taught catechism on a daily basis when i was in grammar school,except for grades five and six when i went to public school. but there's lots of stuff i've forgotten.

religion is definitely a fascinating subject!

It's nice to see you carefully examining all of this. :)

and don't worry,i'm not likely to become an obnoxious constant bible-quoting religious fanatic. catholics aren't like that. i never realized until recently that protestants follow the doctrine called sola scriptura. so everything is centered around the bible,whereas in catholicism it isn't. which is really kind of strange,but it's those kinds of things i want to learn. i think one of the differences is the sacraments. i dont' think protestants have sacraments. and i'm not sure of the precedent for them,except for the last
supper communion.

Ah. Sola Scriptura! A hallmark of the Reformation. Yes, sadly many Protestants (especially the neo-evangelicals and pentecostals) don't realize this. And so they throw out tradition and history, as well. and this undercuts their own identity and gives rise to fundamentalism yada yada yada. Protestants (usually) have two sacraments: Baptism and the Eucharist. If it's an "explicit" command from Jesus, they'll do it sacramentally. But you'll find that each denomination has their own slant. The Episcopalians have a few more than the Baptists, of course.

It sounds like you are putting considerable thought and reflection into this. Go, Voyager!!!

yes,indeedy. it's amazing to realize how much i don't know,and how much i've forgotten as well!

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