bluegreen17 | (no subject)

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"do you really even want to get better?"

is what my therapist asked me on monday. to me,there's a note of exasperation on her part in that question. and i know i can be exasperating! it seems like i've been driving people nuts my entire life just by being myself,unfortunately.

what my therapist doesn't seem to understand is that,yes,i do want to feel better,but i don't have the energy to do much about it,because that's the nature of the sickness (depression). i do as much as i can,which never seems like much to me.

take this morning,for instance. as happens fairly often,i had a tough time getting out of bed this morning. partly,i suppose,it was because i woke up in the middle of the night and my legs really hurt and it wasn't easy falling back to sleep. every once in a while my legs get achey. i noticed they were like that yesterday and it was pretty bad when i was sitting and playing on the internet last night before i went to bed. that happens often enough,but i'm usually okay once i crawl into bed. but sometimes i wake up and my legs hurt and i have that 'restless leg' syndrome that i've heard about. your legs feel so uncomfortable that you just can't get...comfortable enough to stop thrashing around. it's weird,because it's not pain,but some types of discomfort,like that kind,or terrible itchiness,or the weird achiness that accompanies low blood sugar,seems worse than certain types of pain. anyway,so i was awake for that reason for quite a while,and i guess it was painful as well as uncomfortable,but it was a dull ache. i think dull aches are worse than sharp pains a lot of the time too! like,ugh,menstrual cramps,if you've been lucky enough to experience those.

well,anyhow,i didn't sleep well,so i was pretty tired. and i'm not as depressed as i could be,but i was depressed enough to not be able to force myself out of bed until about an hour later than i should have gotten out of bed. and now i'm going to be late for work and lose some money,which adds to the depression.

i don't think the depression is going to go away.i have frequent recurring episodes,and frequency and intensity vary,but it's been a part of my life since i can remember. so,i probably just have to cope as best i can. but it's getting to the point where it is interfering with my ability to support myself,and since i can't expect anyone else to support me,what can i do?

and my therapist doesn't seem to get that. or maybe there is just nothing she can do to help me. at one point,i felt like saying to her

'well,fuck. okay,i'm hopeless. thanks for pointing that out to me." and walking out. but that would have been pointless,so i didn't. but that is how she made me feel. i'm sure some folks think i should just see another therapist. i'm not entirely sure that my negative feelings here are a bad thing. there's lots of things that can happen in therapy,like projection and transference,and blah blah blah. so i am going to continue with this one for a little while longer at least,to see if it ultimately helps. sadly,also,there are very few choices of therapists for me that are covered by insurance,and i have trouble sometimes coming up with the ten dollar copay for the ones covered by insurance,never mind even thinking of going to one that is not!

the therapist i had previously always made me feel better but i wasn't accomplishing anything. i wasn't getting any better,and i wasn't learn any new ways to cope.

in the words of kurt vonnegut:

and so it goes.

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Bah. Maybe you need to find a third therapist.

The thing with depression, or any mental illness, is that, no, it wont ever go away. It will always be a part of who you are. Healing isn't about curing, because it can't be. It's about finding ways to cope, as you said. But it's more than that, too.
My depression used to rule my life, for years and years it did. It doesn't anymore. It pops up during difficult times, or something just when I'm PMS-ey or even just if the weather is bad for a few days, but it's never the way it was back when it was the strongest force in my life.
Of all of my health problems, the depression is probably the least problematic for me (other than the allergies and asthma) now, where it used to be the most problematic.

It is possible to heal from depression to the point where it isn't a major roadblock to your life anymore.
But, it will always be there. And any therapist who tells you differently has no idea what depression is really about. It's like recovering from an addiction. People don't say "I used to be an alcoholic." They say "I'm a recovering alcoholic."
In a similar vein, I say I am a depression survivor - not a person who used to be depressed.

*big hugs*

thanks. good thoughts as i can tell you understand. i like the analogy with the recovering alcoholic. i think some folks do have one-off depressions...and they get better. but others of us have melancholic temperments and can't really be 'cured' of that.

of course,i want to know what helped you to see it in a better perspective. probably we all have to find our own way, but i'd love to know what helped you to do that.

thanks for your support and good thoughts!

Yes, I think those one time depressions are called situational, whereas those of us with the chemical imbalance that causes the melancholic state are called chemically or clinically depressed.
Ah, labels.

I would have to say that my current way of being is that situational depressions sometimes strike me and stir up the chemical stuff. heh

As far as my own healing process from the really ugly depression... a lot of it was just working through the issues that were triggers for my depression. Some of those triggers were outside forces, like family issues I had to come to peace with. Others were inner issues that I needed to work on, like how I responded to stressful situations, etc. All of that stuff I really needed good therapists to help me with, and in fact, am still seeing a good therapist who is continuing to help me work through this stuff.

Another big part of it for me was positive thinking, positive self-talk, self-affirmation, whatever you want to call it. Basically, re-training myself to think and talk positively instead of negatively. This can't be done in a false way, or it's worthless. You really do have to work hard at it. Or at least, I did. I forced myself to think up good things about myself, my life, the world around me, etc. every day. Sometimes it took me all day to think of anything. After awhile, it got easier, and it did change my perspective - just recognizing that despite everything going wrong, there were things for me to be happy about.
The other part of that was catching myself when I started to say or think something negative. This took stages, too. First, just noticing when I was doing it, since it was so ingrained. Then, stopping myself, if even for a second, before continuing on. Then, stopping the thought entirely and moving on to something else. And then, finally, replacing the negative thought with something more positive.
It really is a retraining process, because so many of us are just so used to thinking negatively that it takes work to change what is, essentially, a bad habit. It's like quitting smoking - you can't go cold turkey. heh

I hope some of this helps a little bit. *hugs*

thanks for sharing all that. i appreciate it.

i've had success with using self-talk to ward off anxiety attacks. my former therapist said self-talk can be helpful for depression,but that it's a lot harder to do than with anxiety,and i believe it! i also know positive thinking works,but it takes a lot of energy. i think i have to try to do these things anyway. to not only push myself more but also to be more gentle with myself at times too.

my current therapist is doing some cognitive stuff with me. i think what's hard is that she doesn't have a good 'bedside manner' and that's helpful to me,but the essence of what she's doing may be helpful if i can just put aside her abrasiveness and let it go. it really is hard to find a good therapist. also,tough to find a good doctor! i'm trying to decide whether to try a different medication but i'm afraid of getting stuck on the treadmill of medications with no option and no help to get OFF it if i want to at some point.(or if i have to because i have no money for it.)
maybe if i had the faith that some folks do that things always work out,i wouldn't worry about getting stuck on the treadmill down the line. the interesting thing about people who put their faith in God or the universe or whatever,that their needs will be taken care of,is,that for those people it happens! i was just reading something by caroline myss where she relates how the woman who called herself 'peace pilgrim' lived that way in faith and always got what she really needed.

there seems to be very few places to go for support of dealing with depression unmedicated and there doesn't seem to be any such thing around here. i need to decide which is the best way for me to live...taking my chances on medication or taking my chances without.

anyway,thanks again. it seems you have worked very hard to get to where you are and i admire that and it's good to know that it can be done.

and i do appreciate you being so supportive as well!

maybe if i had the faith that some folks do that things always work out,i wouldn't worry about getting stuck on the treadmill down the line.

Yea, faith is a tricky concept for me, too, and probably has a lot to do with all of my anxiety and control freakishism.

Have you thought about seeking a naturopath, homepath, herbalist, etc. to help find ways to support your depression without medication? Just a thought.

if the therapist did ask you that with a undertone of anger or an agressive unertone at all, i would say, that's not a bad sign, i would say, that she relates now to you as human an not as non involved therapist, so i would think, that it would have been a chance if you had left the room with a fuck well...so she could see for herself how her statement did arrive at you...

otherwise i know from me, that i behaved similarly with therapists, that they got annoyed and i judged they then inwardly and did retire or break the therapy and "played" the role of the sacrifice

tht's from me, that's not about you, don't forget

being a therapist must be a very difficult job as i think dealing with depressed people is very difficult. and i think there aren't really that many really good therapists,but i figure i will give this one a go for a while longer and see what happens.

thanks for your note!

Maybe you should get antidepressants prescribed. I think a regular doctor can do this. Your therapist can't.

my primary care doctor prescribed wellbutrin for me and it worked for a few months,but doesn't anymore. i'm afraid to go off of them and feel worse,and i don't want to go onto something that has more side effects,but i will think about it. it would mean a long trip to a psychiatrist,as i don't think my regular doctor can keep overseeing different medications,since she's not an expert on mental problems. though i may ask her first.
ah,well...

This is going to sound weird, but when I have those leg things you're talking about, which is a lot, I often take out my vibrator and have at. For some reason, the moving around and contracting and stuff will make the leg spasms go away. No shit.

well now,that's a pleasant suggestion! thanks!

To be quite honest, I think maybe your therapist has a point but isn't expressing it very well.

I see so many people who are depressed who simply remain that way because they hold this belief that they must convince their minds that they are okay before they do anything. I've had that problem in the past, but one specific ordeal made it all too clear to me, and then I quit doing it.

Basically, depression basically happens when someone acts as if they are a slave to their mood. People get in good moods or bad moods for whatever reason, and that's natural. But when you follow your bad mood and what it "feels like" doing, you end up doing nothing. Or worse, you end up actively harming everything around you. But it's like quitting a habit--quitting the physical habit of smoking is easy, for example. Just stop putting a cigarette in front of your face. Quitting the mental habit is hard. The mind wants to be convinced before it will do anything, and--silly us--we actually try to convince it. I like to look at my own mind (when it gets like that) as sort of an errant child. It wants an explanation for why it should do the right thing, when the only explanation is "this is the right thing, not the comfortable thing."

In the end, it just doesn't want to do it for one reason alone: It Is Hard. The mind says, "Make it easy and then I will do it." The thing is, there usually is no way to make it easy, and then the mind thinks it's justified in not getting anything done. Normally, the mind is what animates the body. Well, that higher part of you that brooks no excuses and might be considered beyond the mind can take over, if you put some effort into it. It can hijack the body and do all of these things anyway. And if you pay attention to how it feels to do these things, you start to come out of your depression.

Most people just need a kickstart. Once they're moving, they do fine, until they stop for some reason. Then they need another kickstart. The problem is that people think they can only get a kickstart from something outside themselves. And everyone else senses on some level that this is not true, but they can't articulate it. Truth is, you're not going to drop over dead if you do these things. Pain won't kill you, neither will tiredness. This illusion of "having no energy" is just that--an illusion. There is always some last shred in there, but the mind--perceiving everything as a finite quantity--tries to hoard it because "it's the last shred of energy I have!" But we are like garden hoses. We can only hold so much water, but we forget sometimes that since the spigot of energy is always on, we will gain back any energy we give. So we hoard it all, for fear of losing it. What happens if a hose stops putting forth water? Same thing that happens to a person who stops putting forth energy--the flow stops and everything that is held onto begins to stagnate. It goes no where, produces nothing, and just the slightest kickstart could get it going again. Until the next fear kicks in and you stop again.

As I said, do the deeds and the energy will come. Do nothing, and no one will ever be able to kickstart you. Even when you do feel like they have done so, it's really you that did it. It is your reaction to them that did it. React to yourself--your inner self and kickstart yourself. Convincing the mind is sometimes like dealing with a child who wants the whole universe to be understandable and fair before he will move an inch and shovel the driveway. At some point, the child needs to just stop arguing and do it. All you have to do is know what is right to do. Then DO it, no matter what excuses your mind kicks up. Some may make it hard, yes, but only hard. Not impossible.

thanks for all those thoughts!

it seems in regards to the kickstart,that i've had to do that often daily just to get out of bed. then,often,after i'd pushed myself to go to work,i'd feel better. been doing that for years.

lately,i supposed i've gotten lazy or discouraged or just world weary and in a frame of mind for giving up. i've developed really bad mental habits,and considering what kind of brain i have,vigilance is necessary.

when i was younger,though,a lot of what kept me going was the hope that things would get better and that someday i would have the life i wanted. every once in a while,i'd have a short time of feeling that my life was good. it was enough as it was. but mostly,that wasn't the case. and i no longer have much hope that things will get better and that life will be even slightly as i want it to be. the past two years i've already had to deal with things related to aging,and it's so easy to believe and difficult to combat the thoughts that life is just going to keep going downhill...it's shocking to me the things that age is doing to me and i'm not 60,i'm 45! but some folks have to deal with bad health stuff at even younger ages.

i do know that positive thinking helps. i didn't keep up with it,though,and i think it's because i felt the result never justified the effort. or maybe i just fell off the horse so many times i got tired of dusting myself off and getting back on.

i've had this crazy illusion (or is it?) that life shouldn't be so difficult. it's a lot of work for me. maybe i'm too openminded and i entertain too many different viewpoints. so i bounce between positive theories to the more 'realistic' buddhist viewpoint that all life is suffering and you have to work really hard to be the least bit happy. there are so many books that put forth the viewpoint that 'life wasn't meant to be a struggle' (to quote the title of just one of these types,by stuart wilde). maybe they are popular because that is what people want to believe. and then you get the folks that say you create your own reality by your beliefs so all truth is relative. others say there is truth that is absolute. i look at all this and my brain
short-circuits!

also,sometimes i just have the simple (but not easy!) goal of just loving people and things as the way they are. but then every day i run into so much rudeness and it knocks me flat or terrifies me when people are constantly trying to run me off the road. i drive on average about five miles over the speed limit,which to some folks is a heinous crime...way too slow!

well,enough of my babbling and ranting!

anyway,i really liked your garden hose analogy and i will reread your note several times to expose my bratchild brain to it.

thanks again.

i think it all depends on the therapist. i've been to one who seemed to have her own agenda about my problems. then i've been to another who seemed to ask me to draw my own conclusions so often that i thought i wasn't being helped at all, yet i finally realized he was guiding me in the direction he thought would help me, yet allowing me to find my own way. no matter what they say i do think that therapists personal feelings creep into sessions. have you ever tried a male therapist? i truly feel that sometimes someone of the opposite sex can be more objective. i've always wondered how "transference" couldn't occur on both sides. patient AND therapist.
i trust a therapist who lets YOU do most the talking and forces you to question yourself, NOT one who immediately tried to push you into problem solving mode. therapy takes time to "figure out" the problem before you can solve the damn thing!

love your errant pal, patti aka mia,

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