bluegreen17 | biblical idolatry

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biblical idolatry

i'm getting really annoyed. lj is being a pain right now...everything takes forever,relatively speaking. and last night i kept getting 'database temporarily unavailable' messages.

i just went to reply to a comment and it says i can't because it's screened...excuse me,it was a reply to a comment i left in someone's journal who's on my friends list and i believe i'm on theirs,so what the hell? why do people screen stuff anyway?

this morning i found out three of my sisters were having lunch one town over from where i was hauling my ass to visit my mother...i hate driving on the road there...heavy traffic and high speed. going 60 mph with one or two car lengths between. i.e. not technically safe. driving like that,people must be relying on luck. i dont like to play dice while i'm driving....and they didn't invite me or forgot to,even though i thought they knew i would be visiting my mother and had the day off. i emailed them to tell them i was rather hurt,but havent heard anything back yet.

but,i guess it really hasn't been a bad day overall. my visit with mom was okay. there's not much to do,so i just sat with her for most of the hour and a half and babbled whenever i could think of something to say in case she understands. we sat outside for awhile,and there was a wonderful breeze.

now for some reason it's getting really dark out. i didn't think it was supposed to rain,but maybe it's just cloudy.

oh,yeah,actually i wanted to write out this quote from a book i just started reading.

a christianity which is not basically mystical must become either a political ideology or a mindless fundamentalism. this is,indeed, already happening,and it is curious to note that,for lack of the mystical element, both trends fall back on the bible as their basic inspiration-and it has always struck me that biblical idolatry is one of the most depressing and sterile fixations of the religious mind.
-alan watts,in the preface of the 1971 edition of behold the spirit: a study in the necessity of mystical religion

i like how he puts that...biblical idolatry indeed. exactly pinpoints why people who are always quoting the bible really annoy me,even though i love jesus.

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I don't know why people who screen friends comments don't make the journal all friends anyway. that way they would never have to screen a thing.

i wonder if mercury is in retrograde again...or still.. *smiles* cause communicating right now is becoming a bitch..*smiles*

*smiles* I actaully quite like that Quote you posted. That one makes quite a bit of sense. *smiles*

i like it when i find something in a book or wherever and turn it into a 'quote' that hasn't been pre-extracted! it's fun!

alan watts! that's who isn't on my interests list but should've been from day one! excellent quote. i loved that man. (but he didn't love me. boo hoo. oh sorry, i'm being silly.) :D

I really enjoy reading and/or listening to his old radio program tapes.

i think one of the first books i read by him was the book:the taboo on knowing who you are that type of concept was really new to me then and it takes me a while to comprehend things,but he was one of those writers that made it possible.in a similar fashion, sylvia boorstein gave me a breakthrough with buddhism with it's easier than you think which goes over the four noble truths and more.

Yes! Those are great! My favorite was his description of neurosis as a kind of feedback--he spoke of it in terms of pointing a tv camera at the screen showing the output of the camera. Neurosis indeed!

i tried to picture that...ha! what a great definition. a feedback loop locked into itself. did he say how to break out of it?

just out of pure intellectual curiousity,of course.

: )

Sadly no. No advice on breaking out. Well, none other than zen sitting. :-) In proper zazen one would lose focus on things other than the present moment and feedback would die out. Or words to that effect.

ah,the power of now is wonderful i'm sure,but i haven't found a way to focus on the present moment that works for me...yet,anyway.

Have you considered yoga? There are a graded set of exercises--starting with general concentration then moving to objects of concentration, then to objectless concentration. Zazen is too hard for me, too. :-) So I am looking into yoga. I have gotta do something!

I agree... LJ has really been a pistol today.

My Bible professor in seminary always called it, "Bibliolatry."

And I love that quote!

please excuse my breaking into

moonriver's thread to say that i've just been to your website and read your essay on Universalism with great pleasure, and i've added you to my friends list. no obligation to reciprocate, of course; but i wanted you to know who the daisydumont is who suddenly turned up there.

ok, back to the thread!

pardon me for breaking into my VERY OWN personally owned thread...: )

speaking of universalism,i've been reading a fairly new book called if grace is true by philip gulley and somebody else. i'm enjoying it so far.

i'll pardon you if you'll pardon me. maybe we'll start a trend! :D

i'll go look up that title now. sounds good. i believe in universalism because i want to (which sounds like an awful reason) and am always glad to see better thinkers than i come up with convincing arguments for it. thanks for mentioning it.

i like people who want to believe that god is going to save everybody because if god is love,how can he not? even 'toughlove' doesn't send people to hell. it also reminds me of the bodhisattva vow,which is one of the most beautiful things i have ever heard of.i even 'hear' the vow in one of my favorite songs,foo fighter's 'aurora'...it ends with wait for everyone/wait til the last one's done. i just love that.

That bodhisattva vow is overwhelmingly wonderful...I can't help but feel that surely God feels the same way and will never give up on anyone.

This is all so positive. And yet my reason for believeing in universalism is completely negative: I consider myself so bad that, er--well if God isn't saving everyone then I am doomed.

Oh, trust me I can relate to that feeling! But I think that's where the concept of grace is most important...for people like you (and me) who know we could never "make it" otherwise. It really takes the focus off of the person and on to the graciousness of God, where it belongs.

And perhaps that's why Jesus speaks of those who sin little being forgiven little and those who sin much being forgiven much (and hence are more grateful).

When was the last time you had a mystical experience of the presence of God?

why do you ask? i dont' know,because it seems it's undefinable. i think it happens to me often enough in quite ordinary settings,especially outdoors. but i can't swear on a stack of bibles (sorry,couldn't resist) that those are mystical experiences.
and when i don't have them,i feel really lost and my mind thinks maybe God doesn't even exist. it's a tough thing to explain. how about you?

the quote made me think of why i stopped going to the local unitarian universalist church,ironically. there didn't seem to be room for a mystical presence there,and i wanted that. i dont' want just ritual,i want RELATIONSHIP with God.

I'm blessed with His presence often, but when I don't feel Him, like you the absence causes me to question either my faith or my sanity.

I've had lots of mystical experiences! They are awesome!!!!

I believe in Universalism too....but I'm Catholic. I enjoy the mysticism there. It's where I was born and raised. I'm finding a universalist belief within some of the people there...mostly in writings of my favorite saints who had mystical experiences showing them that all will be well. That is enough for me. I grew up talking about mystical experiences with my mother and sisters, and we all had them, and I loved the freedom to explore that aspect of spirituality.

it's only recently that i even encountered the concept of 'sola scriptura'. ah,so that's why some folks quote the bible so much. you don't see rumi quoting the koran...at least i don't think so...and who loved God more? well,maybe hafiz...

: )

What does Watts mean by "basically mystical?" I'm not disagreeing with his premise, but I want to be clear on that question. To me, mysticism is anti-scientific and that ain't good either.

i haven't read enough of the book to know what he means yet,but if i figure it out,i'll let you know. i dont' think mysticism is anti-scientific anymore than i think physics is anti-spiritual. but unfortunately i can't quite explain it,which i know can be annoying.

Mysticism is not anti-scientific, no. This is because science deals with the realm of the physical/material...that is the "domain" of science. Science seeks to know more about the physical world through the process of experimentation & observation.

The domain of mysticism (like a lot of religion & spirituality) is the realm of the spirit and the Divine. A mystical experience is, very simply, a direct and personal experience of some greater spiritual power or truth.

Science and mysticism are not asking the same questions nor are they using the same methods, therefore they cannot be in contradiction; they are simply different fields entirely.

And many believe mysticism and science are in harmony...I would agree.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I suspect I may be using the wrong term, "anti-scientific." I don't mean that mysticism is opposed to science or that science somehow negates mysticism (although medieval "imitators of Christ" would happily have said so).

I mean only that science and mysticism are antithetical to one another, their purposes sharply contrasted. Your description of the two methods of inquiry kind of bear that out.

Is that icon a picture of you? Are you a minister?

thanks.i didn't have the words for that,but you do,so i'm glad you shared them.

I like your quote!!!!...

And Jesus words in the bible points to a living relationship and says something about searching the scriptures looking for eternal life and not finding it...that we must come to Him. And he also says that we must become like a little child. When we are children we don't have to refer to the bible for every answer...our words come from the heart. Even if it does have right answers, shouldn't we be able to tap into the answers through our heart if we have Jesus living and breathing inside of us instead of an artificial spirituality where we have to refer constantly to the bible?

I went to a doctor once, and she refered to a handbook everytime I had a problem and I got all kinds of false diagnosis....so I switched doctors and found one that just knew instinctively from listening to me what was wrong and corrected the problem. I think of spirituality in the same way. The answers should come spontaneously and instinctively from the heart.

What is the name of the book????

jesus also never said 'write this down'! though of course i'm glad there are some things about his life we can read about.

do you mean the book i got the quote from?

Yes, I would love the title of the book. I may read it.

There's a place in the bible where it says Jesus did many other things but they couldn't put it all in a book. :-)

But, I'm not one to be able to thump the exact Chapter and verse. I could find it again if someone demanded it....but then again, if they don't believe me they should read the whole bible and find it themselves. :-) Why should I have to do all the work?

I think the bible exposes us to Christ himself (who is The Word of God made flesh), but I think once he takes residence in us the Holy Spirit can speak through us and so we will know what to say in the right situations and live by the Spirit instead of the letter.

hi! the title of the book is right at the end of the quote.you probably just didn't notice. the book is called behold the spirit:a study in the necessity of mystical religion by alan watts.

I've heard of Alan Watts before....I can't recall where.

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biblical idolatry

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zazen as always...

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will the last to leave kindly turn out the lights?

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