bluegreen17 | the usual 'why'?

this morning i woke up and my mind was in hell again,as it sometimes is.since then,i've pondered myself out of it a little bit,i suppose. and maybe lunch helped as well,though the return of the fruitflies was not welcome. i feel guilty for causing them to breed. it's weird...i've never had trouble until now. so i guess maybe i will have to put my apple cores and banana peels in the freezer until i take them out to the garbage. what's the point of having a garbage can if you can't use it? oh,well.

so,my thoughts this morning were this:

i'm scared to live in a world where god seems either impotent or indifferent to the suffering in the world. i don't know how many of you have seen the movie dogma,which i love,but it makes me think of god being trapped in the body of 'john doe'. how the hell did that happen? it certainly seems on some days that that is the case. i'd prefer to think of god lacking power rather than being powerful and not caring. but it's also scary to think that love and benevolence are not more powerful than the alternative.

there is much i don't know,but i have a hard time believing in all this suffering being for 'the glory of god'.

nevertheless,i will close with this quote from rainer maria rilke,which i guess is some food for thought:

I beg you... to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers which could not be given you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without ever noticing it, live your way into the answer...
~Rainer Maria Rilke

Memories

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God is not impotent or indifferent to the suffering in the world. God is the suffering in the world, and the joy.

God is the suffering in the world, and the joy.

i really like that idea,but i can't say i understand it.i don't know if it's something you can put into words or if you would want to try to explain it? i really do like your worldview,at least as i understand it from one essay you wrote in pronoia. but where did you learn that? is that how you were raised or is it something you discovered?

interestingly,what you are saying sounds a lot like a book called hardcore zen that i've been reading this week.

thanks for writing a note with your viewpoint. it helps to shake up my worldview and such at it is,that's a very good thing.

It seems to me that many people get wrapped up in the idea of God as being something separate from themselves and from the world that he/she/it created. It's a Christian notion and before that a Gnostic notion and before that someone else's notion, I'm sure. It sort of makes sense on the surface, especially if we are taught to believe that God is this sort of merciful figure, because logic then states that mercy does not allow for suffering and there is certainly enough of that in the human condition to give one pause.

I don't know much about zen, but I do know a thing or two about creation. I (with a little help from a sperm donor) created several children over the course of my life. I see me in them. I've created several pieces of artwork in my lifetime. I see me in them as well. My logic says that if I am in the things that I create, then God is also in the things he/she/it creates.

I don't like the idea that this God created the world at one solitary point and then stepped away from it. The world is always being created anew, God is active and alive and inside of every blade of grass that peeps up in the spring, every egg that the birds lay in their nests and in the eyes of every child born to every mother. God, as Creator, is always with us, he/she/it suffers with us, knows joy with us, cries when our children die and smiles when they thrive. God created this world and everything on it, but he/she/it does not control it, does not allow or disallow certain things but rather experiences all things with us and with every other thing existing in this creation because all things are in God and God is in all things.

And that, my friend, is the best I can offer with words. It all depends on how you think of this thing called God. I use the italics because I never, to myself, use that word. If you want a longer dissertation or to more fully delve into my thoughts on this matter, feel free to email. I have the addy on my user info. :)

Oh, and you are welcome. I'm always happy to share. hehe

both of you shared things that really made me think about what *I* believe, so thank you very much. I think agree with you, yellowboy, in that God creates us and is there in every moment, but does not control things according to His whims.

Welcome very much.

i've loved that passage from rilke for over 30 years. it's beautiful and so wise.

what you say about god being unable to stop the world's suffering reminds me of Rabbi Kushner's theological stance, which is his way of dealing with the Holocaust and other such horrors. if god loves us, how could he (i use the word on purpose) allow that or any other such thing? the rabbi said (if i paraphrase him right) that god is with us in our suffering, though he doesn't move to end it. the problem is of course that this limits the traditional power of god.

i have sort of resigned from that whole debate, after years of trying to figure it out. i sort of reverse it -- not "god is love" but "love is god." there's too much suffering going on for me to believe in a god who acts to stop it.

i'm not going anywhere with this, i just realized, so i'll shut up. but your struggles with this issue hit home with me.

i like your idea of reversing it to 'love is god'. see,vicky,that's a wise woman thing to have said! gaining new perspectives...getting to be wise...and a wise-ass along with it. aren't the best crones wise-asses? don't you aspire to be maude from harold and maude? i'll bet you've seen it...if not,you'd love it! vroommmm...

i really do like rabbi kushner's book and i particularly recommended it to two of my sisters. kind of helps with dealing with my mother's terminal illness and dementia.i'm just not totally satisfied with that answer all the time,though!

oh, i adored Harold and Maude, saw it when i was at IU. just the other night, as we were walking around the neighborhood, we passed a neighbor's house, where he had parked his hearse (he runs a local funeral home). i instantly started singing "if you wanna be you be you, and if you wanna be me be me," then laughed. ruth gordon was brilliant in that! did you ever see her in My Bodyguard? i loved her.

that was real food for thought indeed. i copied that to reread. i've never seen dogma but now i'm curious. you sound a little tired or let down.
patti

i'd prefer to think of god lacking power rather than being powerful and not caring. but it's also scary to think that love and benevolence are not more powerful than the alternative.

I have often thought this and wrestle with it a lot, trying to make sense of my course in life. I really like that Rilke passage. It's incredibly timely for me to read it right now. Thanks for sharing it.
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i found it on someone's user page. so it was sort of a gift to me and then to pass it along. i'm glad it was something good for you to read.

I believe in God, always, but I usually believe in simple kindness, a thing much easier for me to grasp. I do not know the solutions, but I know what little I can do.

that reminds me of the dalai lama saying 'kindness is my only religion' as well as aldous huxley summing up all his spiritual studies by finally just saying 'be kind to each other'. you've got it,robert!

the usual 'why'?

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