bluegreen17 | am i just a weak person?

am i just a weak person?

sometimes i feel like such a...fraud.
that's not really the right word,but i don't know what that word would be.

here's the deal. i read a lot of books on spirituality and psychology and what i read makes sense. but i have such a hard time putting it into practice. maybe it's because i should be on some miracle anti-depressant so i'd feel capable of being flexible,like 'normal' people are. that is,you have something crappy happen to you,you get bummed out about it,and then YOU GET OVER IT. hallelujah! i'd love to GET OVER things.i was able to 'get over things' for several months when i first start taking wellbutrin (i still take it because if i don't,i get even more depressed. i've developed an addiction to it,in spite of the fact that it's not supposed to happen. of course it does...it's a stimulant. or maybe i'm wrong,because i stopped taking it for about three months,and i don't think i ever 'detoxed'. 3 months should be enough to bounce back form an addiction,shouldn't it? hell,i don't know.)

oh,well,i really was planning to be concise here! what i wanted to say was that yesterday i listened to this excellent 2-tape set by wayne dyer. it was very inspiring,he's a fun speaker to listen to,and what he says makes sense. why can't i DO the things that will help me? sometimes i can,but a lot of times i can't.

for several reasons,i do not want to try any other psychiatric medications.
hell,maybe i'm going through a spiritual crisis,because i think the 'dark night of the soul' is part of the whole thing of feeling abandoned by god,which i feel like a lot. but i have no idea of where to get help for a 'spiritual crisis',because a lot of people don't even believe in them. western medicine is all about giving you a pill.

i have a co-worker who was on 5 psychiatric medications. then she had to take a leave because of depression. she was out for five months. now she takes even more...it just seems to escalate and escalate--the number of different meds people take at a time. it sounds more like good business than good medicine. she now takes more than three times the dose of wellbutrin i take,plus neurontin,effexor,and a newer one i can't remember the name of. ALL OF THOSE.EVERY DAY. there has got to be a better way.

in spite of the fact that i'm not very good at applying useful things to my life,i think wayne dyer rocks.

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this rings bells with me. i've been reading self-help and psychological books (some by dyer) for more than 20 years, maybe even 30. it's very hard to move from understanding what they're saying to applying their ideas. we feel and behave the way we do, it seems to me, due to conditioning and in response to events so far in our past, that a simple self-help idea is rarely adequate to change us a whole lot. i got some results, two years ago, from working with a cognitive therapist who helped me with my acute anxiety, but i'm still neurotic as all get-out and tend to be depressed.

i'm sorry you feel like a fraud. but i do agree that our western approach of throwing cocktails of mixed meds at these problems is *not* the optimal thing. too many psychiatrists seem to be unable to treat the whole person, which i believe requires lots of soul work and *lots* of talk...

Believe it or not, I know exactly what you mean, I KNOW how to fix my life, but I'm too weak to do it. In theory, it sounds great, I just can't get off my ass to apply any of it. Maybe I *like* my misery or something.

really? a book about raw food is entertaining? hey,i'll have to check it out...thanks for the suggestion!

Greetings, Diane.

*Waves meekly*

I know that I do not post much in comments, but I figured I would try something today. Hope you do not mind.

Clinical depression is not a condition that ever "goes away" or becomes "cured," at least not by the methods that modern psychiatric medicine has to offer. I speak from the awful experiences I have had with Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Paxil, the other SSRIs, and even old-style MAO Inhibitors. Even therapy can only help. I mean, if emotions followed rational paths, counseling could be conducted in a more effective way, right?

Meds rise and fall in usefulness. Our bodies build tolerances and the drugs on the market are just not specific enough in application. Medical science doesn't KNOW where sadness or happiness are in the brain. Makes the designing of a proper med difficult/impossible.

*Shrugs*

I can identify with what you posted. Guess that's all I wanted to say.

yeah,we definitely need more holistic health that encompasses body and soul and spirit.

i've had some good results with self-talk for acute panic attacks,but it takes longer to work for chronic anxiety and depression,just because it's a lot of stuff to 're-program' and i suppose there's lots of obsolete 'programs' still cranking away! what a crazy life with crazy brains we have.

thank you for your expression of empathy!

see what vicki (daisy) says above.^ she's one wise woman!

thank you! the empathy is helpful and much appreciated.

depression is a real and legitimate illness, despite the fact that many doctors still don't recognize it as such. i was actually taken to the ER in a near catatonic state, and the ER doc patted my shoulder and told me even movie stars have bad days. i was so livid, if i had been able to move my muscles i woulda broken the fuckers nose.

do not sabotage yourself with doubt.

it is NOT a matter of "getting over it" and anyone who suggest so is lacking in compassion and intelligence.

it is NOT about being weak.

i fought that a lot. and i wound up in a more severe depression b/c for years i kept just trying to 'get over it" and didn't seek help.

as for meds, holy crap, 5 sounds like a lot and sounds very irresponsible of her doctor. to my knowledge, the different classes of new meds still only target 2 types of neurotransmitters, serotonin and norepinephrine. effexor targets both, and is what i take, and i used to take it with celexa, which boosted serotonin (i think. hey 50/50 chance eh? ;) ) i have gotten down to the lowest possible dosage and it is working for me now. maybe i'll get to a point where i feel i can go off it. maybe not. but i have a good psychiatrist who manages my meds with my input. i don't believe in non-pyschiatric doctors prescribing anti-depressants. it is not their field and the nervous system is too complex to not be treated by a specialist who is current on all the hundreds of meds out there available for compatibility with a person's unique body chemistry.

i think it's great that you are finding inspirational material.

for myself, part of my depression was spiritual. i've been working on that for years, and now, when i get emotional dips, they no longer knock me over. now i can feel sad, and yet centered. it is a recent and boggling discovery ;) but all the work i have done to change my negative self-talk and self-criticism, self-sabotaging patterns, and to create faith for myself, is finally showing itself in a cohesive whole. so even though you can't see it, all this searching you're doing and tools you are picking up to empower and heal yourself are all fantastic.

as to the wellbutrin, i know they are expensive to take, but if you can afford it, consider using it for now as one of many tools. if you are functioning on a level where you can be reading and Out There, then you can be finding your truth that works for you and building or maintaining community, which are foundations you need to support getting off the med. don't you have a doc managing your meds??

you are not a fraud. i know how you feel, i have been there sweetie. sometimes i still slip. but it has been a long time since i've felt a failure as a human being. that is the depression skewing your vision. give the critical voices their walking papers hon and follow what feels right. and be gentle with yourself, you still have physical limitations and ingrained patterns don't change overnight. temporary breaks don't mean you are weak. if you were weak you wouldn't even be examining these things.

as for your spiritual crisis, i think we all go through this awakening. it is a calling to discover our true self and what truth in the world we resonate with. redefine what God means to you. redefine faith. redefine truth. everything which exists is simply some thing given meaning by an observor external to it. surround yourself with that which gives you joy! i have faith in you and your journey. *hugs*

This might sound silly, but I was lethargic, unable to get my ass in gear for some years. Only complete determination kept me going. Several doctors told me I was depressed and indeed prescribed medicine. Being stubborn, I didn't take it, and now wonder if it would have helped or not. I am glad that your medication is helping, I know it does help lots of people.
After years of being pretty miserable I've just had an absolute diagnosis that I'm extremely allergic to molds, as well as a bunch of other things. As much as anything else this has been holding me back. None of my early doctors even hinted that I could be having problems with allergies. They simply concluded that I was depressed. Could you possibly have a combination of depression and allergies that is holding you down?

In any case, it sounds like you are doing everything you can to take care of yourself and make life better. That makes you a powerful woman in my eyes.

Hi there,

I want to help you out of your depression by making it even worse. *grin*

You wrote, "why can't i DO the things that will help me?" That's a question that gets me on a train to depression land and I imagine does the same for you. Using analogical thinking to try to figure out the original conditions of your present condition is like pointing a finger at the moon. Yep, there's a finger (the result of my analysis and answering why) and there's a moon and really have nothing to do with one another (other than me making some sort of imaginary link between them). I'm better off not asking "why" and instead asking "how do I make myself miserable in this moment?" And usually the answer is that I'm feeling some particular way *and* desperately wanting to feel some other way.

Now, I don't see that there's any problem with being bummed and depressed and not being able to "get over it" unless I'm also telling myself that I have to get over it, or that I really just want to be happy. When I just give in to being totally depressed for as long as I have to, and even accentuate and exaggerate it - mope around and behave like Eeyore, write sad stories in my journal, eat lots of sugar and carbs, and stuff like that - eventually I get so so sick and tired of being depressed that suddenly I do something else and I'm happy. And I bite the head off of anyone who tells me to "snap out of it" or "stop being so narcissistic." Sometimes that anger is enough motivating force to snap me out of depression.

I really think that emotionally, a depressive episode starts with the repression of one or more core emotions like anger, sadness or joy that begin as reactions to a given situation. Letting myself completely experience the depression and be as expressive as I have to be puts me back in touch with my emotions, and then I can experience those and release them and let "me" flow again.

So, my advice is to be as miserable as you want as long as you need!

love,

jonathan

Spiritual Crises are real...often they are related to our souls need for nourishment of a non-material nature. Grief, anxiety, depression, the sense that god has abandoned us..all of these are indications that we are in some sort of spiritual need. We tend to try to treat a soul problem with drugs that often separate us even further from the rich deep emotional life of the soul.

I find that time with nature helps...perhaps a trip to a retreat center...a weekend at the ocean with NO and I mean NO electronic anything...just me and the waves a pen and notebook...no radio,, no internet..no cell phones...just time to listen to the silence in my soul...to write my longing and my lonliness...and to let my physical senses BE...often the sense of being abandoned by God reveals itself to me as my own abandonment of myself...I sleep deeper but less..wake up hungry and definately more alive...and I may cry and mourn or laugh and dance in the waves...I find the greatest help to my own depression was these times away from a world that is too busy to feel all my feelings and just live in my body.

I found my soul needs rituals..like a fire on the beach at night...or a simple candle ceremony...little things like keeping a memento from each of these trips and arranging aplace for them in my home...so i can remember and refresh myself when daily workaday life won't let me get away.

Spiritual crises are real..the needs of our soul for something rich and simple and deep cry out to us in all the diseases of stress every day...and every time I have felt abandoned and comfortless...if I have been willing to BE alone with myself...the moment I let the silence in...I always find both god and myself again...

I am no Doctor or psychiatrist...I am only a ministerial student/residential contractor...but I know depression and I know the dark night of the soul...and while medications may help they cannot release us untill we learn to truly listen from our deepest heart to the silences that speak of the art of living...

May you be blessed in your journey...

Hi. You don't know me, but I am

sstitch's partner. She mentioned your post to me and said I should read it.

I can really relate to what you've written here. I'm having a lot of the same questions myself. I am not currently on any psych. drugs. I'm on vitamins instead. Nothing I tried worked for me, and I am very resistent to them. In fact, I'm one of the 4% of people who have seizures on wellbutrin, and it caused some pretty nasty damage. I have an anxiety disorder and ptsd, and at the moment I'm in the midst of one of the worst bouts of it in a very long time.

I, too, would love to just be able to GET OVER IT. Sometimes I just want to take myself by the shoulders and shake and scream GET OVER IT, DAMNIT. I know that feeling.

I understand completely the questions about knowing the tools but not being able to apply them. I'm dealing with the same thing. Lately I'm finding that my feelings and sometimes my behavior not only contradicts the tools I've learned, but my value system in general. I've found myself feeling things that I just never thought I would be feeling, and would not look kindly upon in another person (if I hadn't had them myself, anyway). I understand being able to do them sometimes but not others, too. Over the past few years, I've been getting so much better. I've made huge leaps in progress. But right now I feel like I did a very long time ago, and I can't seem to find the tools that worked then.

Maybe it's God that I'm missing. Maybe it's Integrity. Maybe it's self-love. Maybe it's something else.

I'm not sure what I wanted to say here. I just wanted you to let you know you're not alone, and it actually helped me to read your post, because it lets me know that I'm not alone either.

*Be Well*

thank you again for another long thoughtful comment.

if you are functioning on a level where you can be reading and Out There

ah,the 'functioning' word. it's a double-edged sword. bedcause i'm functioning,people don't think i'm really feeling bad. on the other hand,at least i AM functioning. recently i found a book about 'chronic discontent',which the author prefers to use over 'dsythymia'. he contends they are quite different kinds of depression,but that chronic discontent can lead to major depression,and one can have more recurring episodes and get worse and worse. i think i've been in this downward spiral,but awareness is helpful. the book (the half-empty heart by alan downs) helps me to feel validated and also has some helpful suggestions...actually,a 'program' to help with this. may be worth a try. i don't think i've ever found a helpful book for 'dsythymia'.

my spiritual side doesn't like the idea of approaching this in this psychological way,but on the other hand,maybe the psychological focus can expand to include it if i choose to see it from that perspective.
after all,if spirituality is about ONENESS,then it's all useful.

thanks again for your thoughts!

the allergy angle is something to look into. thanks for mentioning it,and for the support. i appreciate it.

i totally understand what you're saying. i've thought of it before,so thanks for reminding me. i really think the only way 'out' is through.
i think i have a secondary issue with expressing those feelings,thus reinforcing feeling 'empty' a lot. so i kind of know this,but i dont' dare do it.maybe this is something i can work on with my therapist's support. it's ingrained in me to be afraid to feel.
fortunately i recently found a book called the half-empty heart that addresses that issue.

you're so right about how wanting to be feeling other than one does at the moment just makes it a lot worse,instead of letting it take it's natural course. years ago,i actually used to allow myself to do these things. i remember my roommate and i putting on james taylor and dan fogelberg music,sitting in the dark,and just allowing ourselves to feel really sad. after a while,we said,okay we're done. let's go to that party we were invited to now. i just think i've rarely allowed myself to do that,and what probably helped that time was having someone to share it with. and the older i get,the tougher it's been to 'let go' and feel. i think i'll never 'come back up',i wont be able to work and support myself anymore,and will become a burden to my family. so i need to find a safe environment to be able to express all those stored up feelings. at least now i have a few ideas of how to do that.

thanks for sharing what works for you.
i appreciate you taking the time to leave me that note. once i get past the being afraid of feeling stuff,that kind of thing would work for me too,i think.
good to know.

thanks for your thoughts from the spiritual angle. the closest thing to peaceful nature i have here is the cemetery down the street. i do go there sometimes,but oftentimes i feel to busy to even do that. but it's good to keep in mind.

over the years,i've tried to meditate. i know it would be helpful,but i haven't been able to make myself do it. it makes me feel hopeless spiritually,because so many teachings say that it's the only way to god. i don't think that's totally true,but i do see how valuable meditation could be,which makes me more upset that i can't force myself to do it. so i'm still looking for something that will work for me. i've been reading osho's 'book of secrets' which has 122 different ways to meditate,so i hope i'll find one.

i imagine eventually i will find a way,or i can at least say that right now while i'm feeling better. when do i know the truth? when i feel okay or when i'm depressed? i don't know. maybe they both are true and it's one of those holy paradoxes.

thanks for your thoughts. i appreciate it.it's good to get your angle on it,because i've certainly already heard the opinions of doctors and therapists,and until i started seeing my recent therapist,there was little or no room for the spiritual aspect.

I just wanted you to let you know you're not alone, and it actually helped me to read your post, because it lets me know that I'm not alone either.

well,i'm glad it worked out well for both of us,and i appreciate your note. i hope things are looking brighter for you. i am doing better,but the whole thing with having the water shut off just sent me into a spiral and brought up a lot of stuff for me. in a way,i suppose it's good for me to be aware of...now i need to decide what i do with that awareness!

thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

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am i just a weak person?

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gigo (garbage in,garbage out)

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No you are not weak!

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Re: No you are not weak!

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