bluegreen17 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
bluegreen17) wrote2003-03-16 09:07 pm
bluegreen17) wrote2003-03-16 09:07 pm
show me where the god of love is...
i'm feeling blue and earlier today i was also seeing red,so i wrote an angry letter to god. it's pretty childish,but it has some merit,i suppose,in pointing some things out to me in the writing of it. got some anger off my chest and kept me busy so that i could forget about my actual feelings for a bit while writing it. that,of course,is probably part of my problem...not being able to tolerate my own emotions along with many other things in life that overwhelm me.
dear god,
i hope you'll forgive me for not believing in you. because you haven't made your existence too apparent to me lately. of course,it may be and probably is that i just don't understand a lot of things. that is so true.
anyway,i'm writing to a being whose existence i doubt because i'm tired of bothering everybody with my problems. if they could help,they probably would or would have already. but it seems they can't do anything to help me and my defective brain and body.
i think of suicide not because i really want to die,but because i want to have a good life and it seems impossible. it doesn't even seem possible for me to have a life that's not too bad. no,not even slightly not bad. nope. i guess that's too much to fuckin' ask for even when i had no choice to be here. and if this is some sort of karma retribution, whoever stacked up this bad karma is not anyone i know,even if it was 'me'. so how fair is that?
not to mention right now that nothing really makes any sense.
if i'm pissed off at you,and you're all knowing and all loving,what the hell is up with that? i wouldnt be pissed off if i was happy,and it seems i can only be happy for extremely short periods of time that go by all too quickly and much of the time i feel okay because i'm eating a substance (chocolate) which is probably at this rate going to destroy my esophagus and add to the hell that is my life. but i have to feel okay once in a while otherwise i can't bear to stay here. and the longer i stay here feeling this way the more motivated i get to find a way to end this all.
yeah,god,i'm threatening suicide to YOU. because i dont' think it's my fault i'm miserable so it must be your doing. because when anything good happens,i thank you for the crumbs you've thrown to me. so if the good is from you,so is all this pain and misery that constitutes most of my life.
what is up with that? and where the hell are you when your creations are in pain?
after writing this,in which i angrily doubt god's existence,i was sitting in front of my window and thinking of how bright and sunny it was outside...how beautiful the light is in all it's different slants at different times of day,and that led me to thinking about creation...the world and how beautiful some of it is,and how amazing it is,and i just feel i know that something magnificent created it. there's definitely something out there more powerful and intelligent than anyone i know. what saddens me,though,is that this being doesn't seem to be the god of love i always thought existed. and that god of love seems mostly missing,except for sparks of it i see in the kindness of humans and other creatures. heck,this probably sounds nutty (not that i care; i've had out-there thoughts all my life) but i think the trees and the sun are sometimes kind,though of course mother nature as a whole certainly isn't.
so what i sense is an all-powerful god who is not very loving. kind of like jehovah in the old testament. (i was raised catholic,so i got the impression of a loving god from the new testament and was confused about how mean and petty and immature god seemed in the old testament...he gives us rainbows because after the flood he kind of felt like a jerk for having such a huge tantrum and said 'i'll never do it again,and the rainbow is my symbol for that'. wow. it makes me think of that episode of the original star trek where this powerful being had a world to 'play with'. ha,sounds familiar.)
on the other hand,rabbi harold kushner's conclusion in when bad things happen to good people is that god is loving but not very powerful. that he wept outside the gates of the concentration camps. i don't say this to mock kushner. i respect his faith and how it helped him deal with the death of his child. i don't know if that's a jewish premise or just his,but it doesn't make sense to me. to me,a being that isn't powerful isn't god,because i equate god with being everything,no limitations.
i'd love it if someone could convince me that there's a god who cares and is willing to help out without asking people to follow a particular religion,because a god should be a god of all. at least i think so.
dear god,
i hope you'll forgive me for not believing in you. because you haven't made your existence too apparent to me lately. of course,it may be and probably is that i just don't understand a lot of things. that is so true.
anyway,i'm writing to a being whose existence i doubt because i'm tired of bothering everybody with my problems. if they could help,they probably would or would have already. but it seems they can't do anything to help me and my defective brain and body.
i think of suicide not because i really want to die,but because i want to have a good life and it seems impossible. it doesn't even seem possible for me to have a life that's not too bad. no,not even slightly not bad. nope. i guess that's too much to fuckin' ask for even when i had no choice to be here. and if this is some sort of karma retribution, whoever stacked up this bad karma is not anyone i know,even if it was 'me'. so how fair is that?
not to mention right now that nothing really makes any sense.
if i'm pissed off at you,and you're all knowing and all loving,what the hell is up with that? i wouldnt be pissed off if i was happy,and it seems i can only be happy for extremely short periods of time that go by all too quickly and much of the time i feel okay because i'm eating a substance (chocolate) which is probably at this rate going to destroy my esophagus and add to the hell that is my life. but i have to feel okay once in a while otherwise i can't bear to stay here. and the longer i stay here feeling this way the more motivated i get to find a way to end this all.
yeah,god,i'm threatening suicide to YOU. because i dont' think it's my fault i'm miserable so it must be your doing. because when anything good happens,i thank you for the crumbs you've thrown to me. so if the good is from you,so is all this pain and misery that constitutes most of my life.
what is up with that? and where the hell are you when your creations are in pain?
after writing this,in which i angrily doubt god's existence,i was sitting in front of my window and thinking of how bright and sunny it was outside...how beautiful the light is in all it's different slants at different times of day,and that led me to thinking about creation...the world and how beautiful some of it is,and how amazing it is,and i just feel i know that something magnificent created it. there's definitely something out there more powerful and intelligent than anyone i know. what saddens me,though,is that this being doesn't seem to be the god of love i always thought existed. and that god of love seems mostly missing,except for sparks of it i see in the kindness of humans and other creatures. heck,this probably sounds nutty (not that i care; i've had out-there thoughts all my life) but i think the trees and the sun are sometimes kind,though of course mother nature as a whole certainly isn't.
so what i sense is an all-powerful god who is not very loving. kind of like jehovah in the old testament. (i was raised catholic,so i got the impression of a loving god from the new testament and was confused about how mean and petty and immature god seemed in the old testament...he gives us rainbows because after the flood he kind of felt like a jerk for having such a huge tantrum and said 'i'll never do it again,and the rainbow is my symbol for that'. wow. it makes me think of that episode of the original star trek where this powerful being had a world to 'play with'. ha,sounds familiar.)
on the other hand,rabbi harold kushner's conclusion in when bad things happen to good people is that god is loving but not very powerful. that he wept outside the gates of the concentration camps. i don't say this to mock kushner. i respect his faith and how it helped him deal with the death of his child. i don't know if that's a jewish premise or just his,but it doesn't make sense to me. to me,a being that isn't powerful isn't god,because i equate god with being everything,no limitations.
i'd love it if someone could convince me that there's a god who cares and is willing to help out without asking people to follow a particular religion,because a god should be a god of all. at least i think so.
no subject
You know what I always figured? God turned himself into a mortal human being, realized how fucking awful that is, and then changed all the rules, rewrote the game plan, and totally changed his tune.
God was operating off this objective perspective, and it wasn't until he looked at his creation from a human perspective that he realized how difficult he'd made things for us.
That's my interpretation at any rate.
no subject
on the other hand,if you took that to mean buddha,he did help...i think the buddhists have the right idea.(though they dont really believe in god as a being anyway). though it doesnt help me much because my mind won't stay quiet and i've never been able to motivate myself to meditate. well,anyway...
no subject
Well, in a way, he did. He told us what we have to do to not live in this fucked up world: practice love, tolerance, and forgiveness. Don't judge others, just do what you can to help them. And then he took all the sin in the world onto himself, and gave us a clean slate to start anew. But do we listen? Nope.
on the other hand,if you took that to mean buddha,he did help...i think the buddhists have the right idea.(though they dont really believe in god as a being anyway). though it doesnt help me much because my mind won't stay quiet and i've never been able to motivate myself to meditate. well,anyway...
You know, i used to think Buddhists had it all figure out myself, but there's a few problems I have with Buddhism.
First of all, there's no real moral guidance in Buddhism. There's the eight-fold path of Right Speech, Right Livlihood, etc. but what is "right" is not really ever explicitly stated. In most Buddhist countries, Buddhism co-exists with Confucian thought, and Shinto religious practices. Considering Buddhism alone by itself doesn't really work, because it has always co-existed with other religions.
I mean, the notion that Buddhism is atheistic is only really held by Westerners. Most Asian Buddhists treat the Buddha as a much more supernatural figure, praying to him, making sacrafices (think fo the altars with incense you see in every teriyaki joint), because most Buddhists mix Buddhism with pre-exsisting Shinto ancestor and Emperor worship.
And then...the other thing I dislike about Buddhism is...well, it's kinda like giving up. I mean, if watching other people suffer makes you feel bad, then Buddhism basically proscribes that you stop caring so much about the suffering of others, to stop desiring an end to their suffering. That seems ultimately nihilistic to me.
Keep in mind that some of the worst authoritarian butchers in history have risen out of Buddhist cultures, and the populace of those countries did little or nothing to stop them - how much of a role did Buddhism play in their willingness to let bastards be bastards?
Which is not to knock Buddhism. I still think that the Four Noble Truths are one of the greatest statements of Wisdom ever concieved. But it is far from being perfect.
buddhism,christianity,suffering
i do practice love,tolerance and forgiveness as best i can.i probably do a poorer job of it than i once did,because i used to have hope and was less beaten down by life. it didn't help me to feel better then,and it doesn't help now. i'm not kind to others so *i* will feel good...i do it so i don't add to the pain that is already in the world.
well,you believe god gave us a clean slate,but i don't necessarily believe that. i used to,and life has gotten worse and worse for me.
it sounds like you probably know more about buddhism than i do. in reflecting on your answer,i realize i probably am just thinking of certain types of buddhism. for instance,in tibetan buddhism,one would never turn away from others suffering.it is all about compassion,and there is the bodhisattva vow for those who have become enlightened,some choose to come back to help others and part of the vow is to help until ALL are saved. which is more than many sects of christianity offer.
which buddhists give up on helping those who are suffering? i've never encountered that,but obviously you have.
what butchers in history have risen out of buddhist cultures?
i don't think buddhism is perfect either,but from all the philosophy and religions i have studied,which may be less than you have,my opinion is that it's the closest system there is to helping people who are suffering.
thanks for continuing the discussion. i like to find out and learn what others have learned.
no subject
Really? I find being kind makes me feel better. I'm just more secure about my place in the scheme of things when i act out of love, tolerance and kindness. I know I'm not one of the bad guys.
At anyrate, don't mistake what I was saying as an endorsement of Christianity or anything. I think Jesus was right when he said that peace and love are the key to living in a happy world (I mean, really, how do you argue against that?). I'm not so convinced that Jesus was right when he said he was God.
it sounds like you probably know more about buddhism than i do. in reflecting on your answer,i realize i probably am just thinking of certain types of buddhism. for instance,in tibetan buddhism,one would never turn away from others suffering.it is all about compassion,and there is the bodhisattva vow for those who have become enlightened,some choose to come back to help others and part of the vow is to help until ALL are saved. which is more than many sects of christianity offer.
Sure. But Tibetian buddhism isn't atheistic. Have you heard of Amanita Buddha? He was a wise man who achieved Nirvana, but refuse to transcend. He waits in the spirit world (or something) and, if you ask him, he will devote however long it takes to helping you achieve Nirvana. All you have to do is say "Amanita Buddha, help me to be enlightened." and he's on your side forever after.
Kind like Jesus is always on your side once you "open your heart to him".
which buddhists give up on helping those who are suffering? i've never encountered that,but obviously you have.
Lots of them. You know how many Christian just give their religion lip service, and do it because it's socially acceptable and they want to fit in? Well, you know, people all over the world are basically the same, and so anywhere you have lots of Buddhists, you'll have lots that are just giving it lip service.
what butchers in history have risen out of buddhist cultures?
Eek. Um, that's a hard question to answer without doing a bunch of research. I mean, could just say Lin Bao. But that won't tell you anything. he was a warlord in during the ...oh hell, what wa sit called? The Seven Kingdom's wars, or something like that. There was a warlord who embraced Buddhism, and forced all of his subjects to convert at sword point (forget his name). It's mostly ancient history. There's also the thousands of Buddhist monks who, well, do nothing to but mooch off their neighbors (the Shaolin are particularly guilty of giving little back to their communities, except martial arts training, which they've used to overthrow governments).
i don't think buddhism is perfect either,but from all the philosophy and religions i have studied,which may be less than you have,my opinion is that it's the closest system there is to helping people who are suffering.
Okay.
god, this cruel entity
Krishnamurti to the students:
Would you like to know what Dr. Bohm an i were talking about at the lunch table? Would you? I didn't mean to get into a serious conversation with him, but he gradually pulled me into ist. And i unfortunately yielded to it, because it was a rather interesting subject, which they were attacking me about in India. Dr Bohm wassaying - just listen to it, first listen to it, don't agree, just find out. He was saying that there is te unmanifested and there is the manifested. The word "manifested" comes comes from holding something in your hand; it comes from the word "manus". He began to explain to me what it meant, and that the unmnaifested contains the manifested. God - to use the word "God" for the moment, there is no such entity for me - God contains the manifested, in HI exists all things. That is the implication of the unmanifested and the manifested.
And if the unmanifested contains the manifested, then it is a very dirty trick, because the manifested goes through bestly times, are tortured, are anxious, have wras, estruction ,violence. So the unmanifested creating the manifeste admits this enourmous misery?......
And what is the relationship of the manifested , which we are, to the unmanifested? If i am in darkness, ignorance, pain, anxiety, sorrow, how can i have any relationship with that wich completely has none of these things? And will it take me million years to get rid of all this and become part of the unmanifested? so why is there creation at all? Creation in the sense of nature, the cruelty of tigers, the whole of nature. Nature is not curel, but we are cruel. See all the complications, I dont want to go more into it, that's enough.
Student: I dont know what you mean by the unmanifested
K: I don't know either. So i said to dr. Bohm: " It sounds terribly complex and cruel; i don't go with this; it doesn't click me. Why bring in the unmanifested?
Why not begin with ourselves, which is much more simple, which has a noble quality in it. To begin with us, with every human being, with each one, and go through the purgation, the emptying, get rid of all the anxiety, fear, all that, and then you don't ask that question, then you really are unmanifested, which mean you are nothing. Therefore nothingness is the unmanifested.
äso i pointed this out to Dr Bohm and we were discussing it
Re: god, this cruel entity
thanks for sharing that. krishnamurti so often gives me food for thought.
Re: show me where the god of love is...
Re: show me where the god of love is...
Re: show me where the god of love is...
for crying out loud, doesn't ANYONE have instant messaging?
Re: show me where the god of love is...